Most of this text was written in a chat with Rafael Cueto Talking about his ancestors and is thus a first hand native south american account on their history and not from a westerner.
Well, our history said that Tupac Yupanqui built Sacsayhuaman to complete the shape of a puma, or cougar in Cusco. But the bases were there already. The Incas said the Puquina did the bases a long time before. Even before the Collas built Tiawanaku. Tiawanaku was a confederation of:
- Quechua speaking Wari
- Aymara speaking Colla (Lupucas)
- Older Puquina descendent tribes
So aparently the old nazca, and the even older paracas (who seem like an older dynasty for nazca) were the ones who made the huge bases of Sacsayhuaman.
The Puquina language was the maternal “secret” language of the royal family, and at the arrival of spanish was still spoken in the coastal valleys of south peru (nazca and paracas culture).
The confusion comes when the incas built on top. Some investigators., suspecting about this older cultures, generalize and say ” so the incas didnt do it like this, therefore everything else is older”.
*The kingdoms disappeared by the military conquest of the Incas, but the current Aymara population, descendants of these populations is estimated at two million located in the countries of Bolivia, Peru, Chile and Argentina. used the Aymara language and puquina .
However, Pachacutec Inca, imported masons from the Lupacas* (a Colla group still building monumental blocks) and made them teach inca architects on the older arts. Machu picchu, is modern, but Huayna picchu at the top is very old…. without knowing this legends, its natural confusion happens.
We can say both Lupacas (Colla group) and Incas shared a common ancestry pointing to the ancient Puquinas.
The Inca were one of those puquina tribes without power who installed in Cusco because it was an old center of their puquina ancestors.
The quechua inhabitants at that moment didnt like that and the incas impose themselves by war… old ruins were there in place… the inca remodeled them (using lupacas masons) , and try to finish some buildings with the same techniques. They knew their cousins Lupacas didn’t lose the old techniques and Paxhacutec Inca summoned masons, and he himself being astrologer and architect designed Cusco with the older principle of Ceques ( The astrological line system used in nazca before per example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceque_system).
The Lupacas use the techniques to make some circular towers know as chullpas, they put their mummies inside.
The inca used the technique to complete temples. The mother of Viracocha inca was puquina and white they say. Same as the wife of Huayna Capac Inca. The spanish were surprised incas were lighter in the royalty house.
Talking about race features, the collas were very dark and had moustaches… the quechuas were reddish brown, the puquina were white and dark haired (not blondes or red as they try to point because of paracas mummies… the red is discoloration).
The long headed paracas (puquinas) were the ancestors of the noble houses of 3 groups: lupacas, incas and chinchas (lima) they were respected because of their ancestry and the Pachacamac oracle temple).
The megalithic stonework: Incas took it from the tribe lupacas (who inherited it), and later on, chinchas took it from incas
The chibchas in colombia knew how.to.make coricollque.. an alloy of gold, silver and natural platinum
Orichalcum with a naturally occurring gold alloy in the Andes (76% gold, 15% silver and 9% copper), which in pre-Columbian South America was known as Coricollque.)
Well, gold, silver and copper is call Tumbaga, or variations as Tumpaca…but was not naturally ocurring….it was developed to be etched, so the copper on the surface could attacked by plant acids, and later hammered so only gold appears on the surface of the object. If some indians are calling that Coricollque (which means simply gold-silver) is because they are either describing the main materials or they are not specialized on goldsmithing jargon or priestly manipulation of metals. The coriquollque was more precious…. for example it was threaded into the stone in Qoricancha in the place were the image of Punchao was standing ( it represented the conjunction of Venus on top of the Sun). …….about africans, the chronicles about the travel of Huayna Capac by sea, said that he brought back black people and a couple of horse jaws…. regardless what im telling you, the info you are mentioning sounds very interesting. That word guanin is not andean…it sounds caribean, muisna or chibcha….
According to Patrick Huyghe, during his second voyage, Columbus was told by the natives of Haiti, that black people had been to the island before his arrival. For proof, they presented Columbus with the spears of these African visitors. These weapons were tipped with a yellow metal that the indians called guanin. Huyghe argues that the word is of West African derivation meaning ‘gold alloy’. It is related to the Arabic word ‘Ghinaa’ which means ‘wealth’. (tainos)
Huyghe reports that Columbus brought some guanin back to Spain and had it tested. He learned that the metal was 18 parts gold (56.25%), 6 parts silver (18.75%) and 8 parts copper (25%), the same ratio as the metal produced in African metalshops of Guinea.
This matches with a video I saw yesterday at 6 minutes
I can not vouch for the rest of this video but this part was interesting to say the least.
… the Chibchas were going to be added to the inca empire but pizarro killed their.ambassador when atahualpa inca was in cajamarca…. since the ambassador was covered in gold.. the spaniards though he was the Inca…
Chibchas are from colombia…. they have a hobby of stepping into softened stones and lie to the spaniards that an angel did.it…. so they can continue paying homage to their water god, related.to wiracocha, while pretending.to be devoted Christians.
So the chibchas knew how to soften stone, as once I heard mapuche shaman knows to?
Apparently the chibchas used acid reactions…. I suspect that southern puquinas actually used alkaline reactions, from antron and soda…. acid was mainly used for polishing. Btw… the mapuches lived under the area of puquina influence. In the south of peru, north of chile, parts of bolivia an argentina… they say the ancient observed the pito bird who vomit his fluids mixed with a plant.
Do you know kenko or qenqo in peru? Supposedly it sits one of the oldest inca sites… puquina of course…was carved by the inside…. nothing rare if it was soft…. but its hard andesite… Is the biggest andesite removing place I can tell…
Some people who believes in ancient machining are wrong here. There is no space for machining. And some carved stairs backwards on ceiling, are smooth….. I insist it is chemical corroded. Why? Becuase we have legends for “magical” substances doing the job. Kenko by the ouside looks like yonaguni, japan. By the inside is awe inspiring… litlle spaces carved out….
and ollantaytambo sacred top.
The main rock-forming minerals in granite are feldspar (crystal aluminosilicate)
As with the stones…. carburundum is a fact….
they say is to hard to cut huge stones like that… what happen if instead of using water and carburundum you add soda? Soda from natron was part of production of egyptians and inca…. thats why egyptian made glass… and incas shape stones.
Soda on top of aluminosilicate fiss when wet and erodes stone easily. I saw it in pisac, cusco. I want to go back and documented… as well a bunch of half.techniques repeated by old man ( remembered by oral tradition but not in the practical application).
- Puquina language
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
|Region||south shore of Lake Titicaca|
Pukina language distribution around 1600 CE, Pukina toponyms, and pre-Inca Pukina ethnicities.
Puquina (or Pukina) is an extinct language once spoken by a native ethnic group in the region surrounding Lake Titicaca(Peru and Bolivia) and in the north of Chile. It is often associated with Tiwanaku.
Remnants of Puquina can be found in the Quechuan and Spanish languages spoken in the south of Peru, mainly inArequipa, Moquegua and Tacna as well as in Bolivia. There also seem to be remnants in the Kallawaya language, which may be a mixed language formed from Quechuan languages and Puquina. (Terrence Kaufman (1990) finds the proposal plausible.)
Some theories claim that “Qhapaq Simi”, the cryptic language of the nobility of the Inca Empire, was closely related to Puquina while Runa Simi (Quechuan languages) were spoken by commoners.
What is the relation between the paracas and the Nazca?
well nazca and paracas are name of places. it was archeologist Tello who noted that in the desert of Paracas there was a culture that passed through at least two periods:
the first was called Paracas Cavernas (they used turbants, and buried in tombs with a “boot” shape, these tradition was even older in Ecuadorian cultures) ….they were contemporary of Chavin (inmigrants in north peru, descendents of the Olmec),
They were culturally invaded by a culture called Topara ( who inhabited the valley of Chincha and move south, this guys were the first ones to mummified their dead, and got elongated heads, they also infiltrated the first Wari)
When they mixed together they were called by archeologist as Paracas Necropolis ( they were burying their mummies in fetal position as all the other ancient cultures, but inside baskets and huge multilayered tunics, simbolizing a seed, and represented. y a worm rolled in himself).Later on, the Topara who stay in Chincha valley became the Lords of Chincha, the Paracas Necropolis became Nazca and were religiously asimilated by the Wari from south andes.
Meanwhile in Bolivia, Tiawanaku was growing, and. confederate with the Wari creating a religious state, respecting every king on their city states but also melting cultural identities ( a sort of Vatican in medieval timess). Well whe the Tiawanku-Wari confederation falls and the main cities also fall down.
Many royals escaped to different valleys…. the Tiawanaku- Wari got 12 main royal families, or tribes. ok… to explain you more, from those 12 tribes, four spoke pukina ( the lupacas, the inca and two other whose names I dont remember right now).
The Toparas who became the Lords of chincha, also spoke Puquina, and the Nazca were gone when everything became desert ( well the common people stayed, in little isolated towns without lord until the coming of spaniards).
Its like medieval europe… the romans were first, they fall, every tribe or nation got their country with a Vatican base… latin spreads into educated people (pukina was language of royals, but quechua was the international languages of Wari)
I dont know many things but I know about my ancstors. My mother is from Arequipa, know as the White City (spaniards said it is because they used volcanic white limestone for housing, but we know its because our volcano known as Apu Misti, Misti means white, as white skinned, and thats how indians called white indians, as puquinas, and waris. (puquinas were white and dark haired, meanwhile waris were red to brown skinnned , sometimes blue eyed, rarely blonde)
Wiracocha was a puquina God who ccame from the north and travel to south in the myth and in the archeological cultures…. the incas didnt callled wiracochas to the spaniards, they new white people, they thought they were wiracocha because they came by sea as their older ancestors…. remember puquina nations claim to descendents
and from them (incas doubt the wiracocha connection once they discover pizarro didnt read tocapus, and not even spanish, also they noted their heads were not long as the royal houses of peru did)….
I should add that Hatun Topa Inca was called Inca Viracocha beacuse he was white…. later on some spanish accounts said that he was not white, his mother was…. anyways. Also, his son Pachacutec married a puquina queen known as Coya Anahuarque who was white and dark haired… on the other hand, talkin back about the Wari, it was the royalty the ones blue eyed… specially around the coast, the andes were mostly quechua speakers of the Chanca and Huanca people who were brown…. (the Uros in bolivia are even darker like roasted coffee)). .. and the Yungas were yellow. I think everybody around the world came to south america…
Where did they come from?
Well in south america, every culture said to come from a different place… the place of origin is called a Pacarina, sometimes is part of a mithical story based on stars, constellations, some times there are real places… sometimes its even by sea… ( such Naylamp, the founder of the Chimu, who where a people who came from northern places, probably mesoamerica…. in other words, everunody came from different places except Caral, who came from Lauricocha ( who existed in the pleistocene as agricultural almost cave dwellers).
…. (the oldest peruvian elongated head is the “burial#6”, from the lauricocha culture, 9000 bc…. when it was a glaciar valley..look by the work of augusto cardich., archeologist in the 60’s.
Skeleton no 6 was of particular interest because it exhibited characteristics interpreted as evidence for artiﬁcial cranial deformation; at the time of its discovery, Augusto Cardich was of the opinion that it should be amongst the oldest skulls in Peru to show evidence for this kind of manipulation. However, new analyses by one of the team showed that the skull does not in fact show depressed areas in the frontal or occipital bones that would provide evidence for the use of deformatory devices (Elsa Tomasto-Cagigao, unpublished data). (!!!)
Additionally the skull has a crack in the dorsal area of the parietals that changes the direction of the bones.
Therefore, the deformation must have happened post-mortem.(conclusion of other investigator who wrote this paper.)
its also interesting for me to read that he catalogued other burials with no deformation, painted in red oxide in the same site….. this custome can be admired in the Caral people of 5000 bc… but these ones were doing zigurat like piramids and a cult based on Fire god and Mother goddess made in unbaked clay…
I was telling I was reading about the lauricocha people and they have one burial with a long head… and lauricocha was at the end of glaciar times…
… you know what… let me prepare a map.. with kingdoms, what languge they spoke, affiliations and time. the kingdoms have a name of their archeological findings and sometime another name based on how they called themselves… for example the Hitites called themselves Nesili, and spoke a laguage of indoeuropean origin, conquered the Hatti and kept the city of Hatussa for themselves…this happen in soithamaerica all the time… so it can be confusing at the beggining…. so let me do you a map.
I will make my homework and prepare a map, one as archeology and mainstream history call them….. and one as my ancestors remember it…. many times you will see a logical correspondance… sometimes it goes mythical but the interpretation is brightening in itself..
Be careful to not confuse puquina with wari… both royals were white, marriage between royals was old common practice.. the main wife usually is from the same houseb buy sexondary qifes and concubines were from different kingdoms. The puquina are always dark haired, light skin…. the wari were from different skine tones( it was a big empire), but the royals in some main coastal cities were light haired, blue eyed.. but tan, or red skin… however many of them are also dark… ohhh did I mention wari people used mostaches, and beard sometimes…. if you were noble and die without a beard, they will make you a ceremonial moustache in gold.. so when you die you dont lost your wari identity…
Now royal houses were always a minory… the Incas werw responsable of a standarization… they moved entire towns to avoid rebellions, people was move around and mixed sometimes as punishment…and sometimes as a prize… exilies were called Mitimaes… so you can see Chimo goldsmithers in cusco, lupaca masons, and huanca warriors. As well as inca settlements everywhere… one of the reasons foreign investigators confused identities, or sometimes believe to discover things that we know for sure.
We dont know who the first puquina said to came from. We know where each puquina ethnia tribe said to come and its usally a valley inside peru…. its like they care about their immediate lineage, but lost memory of where.they came from….
Look the Moche were into realism whem making pottery… they made many peoples portraits..
This was a Wari merchant.
This was a moche warrrior
This was a Puquina from Moquegua (notice the flatened head instead of elongated)..
This is a Moche peasant…
Another Wari guy…
Whole Paracas mummies are at the Rafael Larco Hoyle Museum, and the Museo Arqueologico de Lima… there are hundreds of “fardos” (mummies in fetal postion seated in a basket, covered by many coats of blankets and precious tunics)… what used to happen in the XIX century was that the precious tunics known as Mantos were exported to museums and private collections leaving the mummies just naked, the heads were also sold overseas…. and sadly there was a little bussiness niche for the rest of the body: the burnt them down and sold them as pigment…
In the picture the looting of tombs from the Chancay culture ( from central coast), Nazca ( the people who made the nazca lines), and also Paracas people (the old ancestors of the Nazca). Also Moche from north Peru.
in Peru we observe at least three different styles of head deformation… one conical, another one flat and elongated, and a third one bulky on the sides flattened from the top. There was a cultural continuity from the Paracas, who were invaded by the Topara and became the Nazca… all of them use elongated heads ( the more conical cases were Topara… who also give birth to the late Inca contemporary Chincha -in.this two groups we can see head deformation mostly in royallty). … and im not mentioning many other pre inca cultures to dont produce confussion…. so, we can see there was a social and cultural context for head deformation, if it was a natural condition tried to be imitated we will have to find the genetic marker than can help us find the first group with such features…. we can see head elongation as old as the Sechin and Chavin from north peru in the 1200 bc… I was trying to read if the Caral civilization from 3800 bc has cases like that… couldnt find the info… yet..